From Loss to Legacy with Lisa Hartung

In this heartfelt episode of The FitZen Project, Rachel sits down with Lisa Hartung—philanthropist, storyteller, and host of Giving Grief Grace—for a conversation that beautifully intertwines career, motherhood, and meaning.

Lisa reflects on the serendipitous career pivot that aligned with becoming pregnant with her first child, the birth of her children, and the life-altering moment of her mother’s pancreatic cancer diagnosis. 

Recorded on the third anniversary of her mother’s passing, this conversation is filled with signs, synchronicities, and soul. Lisa shares how daily reminders from her mom inspired her to launch Giving Grief Grace and raise funds for Project Purple—transforming loss into legacy.

If you’ve ever stood at the crossroads of change and wondered how to move forward with grace, this episode will remind you that even in grief, there can be growth, and even in endings, new beginnings are waiting.

Listeners can join Lisa's mailing list on www.lisahartung.com

Suggested donation: $33 - 50, 100% of the proceeds go to my NYC Marathon fundraising page for Project Purple.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Hey guys, welcome back to the Fitz and Project. If you haven't yet, can you go ahead and press pause, scroll down into the show notes and sign up for the Fitz and Project newsletter. I promise it's not spammy, you won't regret it. And it's a nice little love note that you receive personally from me every single week, once a week. So I'd love to have you in my community. And I'd love for you to love to be there. So go on down and sign up for the newsletter. Hey, Welcome back to The Fitzen Project, where the real conversations are meeting radical self-discovery. Today, I'm joined by someone who embodies purpose and motion, Lisa Hartung, and she is the epitome of being in the business of yourself, knowing that that is, it's not optional. It's essential. I love Lisa so much because she provides some of the deepest work from the heart. She lost her mother to pancreatic cancer, and then she trained Transformed her grief into fuel She's so passionate and she's a philanthropist now for the project purple And she also hosts her own podcast giving grief grace, which you will find me on there as she airs that pretty soon But her podcast is amazing. It helps others navigate the hardest seasons of life She's out there with compassion courage and real connections She's not only all of these amazing things, but she's a marathon runner a mother of two and a woman who reminds us that even in loss, we can find love, legacy, and light. So I hope you're ready to be inspired. I know I was. Let's dive in. All right, so welcome to the Fitz and Project. I'm your host, Rachel Fitzpatrick, and I have the lovely Lisa Hartung with Giving Grief Grace. Hi, Lisa. Hello, Rachel. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I'm so excited that you're here. I got to have the privilege of meeting with Lisa, connecting with her a couple of weeks ago, learning more about her world. and all the things that she's doing amazingly in life. And then her podcast, we did our own recording earlier this week. So I'm excited for that for your audience. And also did re-listen to that because that was such a special experience that I got to share with you.

SPEAKER_01: 2:37

Oh my gosh, it was just so, so heartwarming, Rachel. You're such a light in the world. And I'm delighted that we've connected and we're, you know, we're spiritually on the same page. level and I love that

SPEAKER_02: 2:51

absolutely which brings me to my next point so before we got on here and started recording Lisa showed me a book that she is that practices with what daily weekly

SPEAKER_01: 3:07

yeah I occasionally yeah journey to the heart by Melanie Pietti I use this in my yoga practice you know every time I'm wanting to set in and tension or if I'm having a tough day and I just want some words of wisdom, I open up the book to a special page and read it and really just sit with the words. I think that it's just, I've traveled around the world with the book. It's a journey to the heart and she really speaks to the soul. She

SPEAKER_02: 3:38

really does. I've used that book for years myself and discovered that book when I was in yoga teacher training in 2018. So So when the pandemic hit, we would, I started teaching online through 502 Power Yoga and we would always start with an intention and that's where I drew it from. And I would read to them the passage of whatever random that I would get and then move into the meditation from that book. And I thought, wow, how cool that you have that. And like we just became the soul sister And then you've got the book. And I'm like, of course you do.

SPEAKER_01: 4:23

Yeah, my yoga guru uses it. And so that's how I learned it from her. And then I took yoga teacher training also in 2018 with her. So yeah, it's been part of the normal rotation.

SPEAKER_02: 4:39

Well, before I get into this one, I want to know what was your teacher training? Was it like a hatha or a vinyasa or mine was Baptiste

SPEAKER_01: 4:50

mine was normal vinyasa and um it was just such a an incredible time in in my life to kind of put all of the the spiritual and the physical movement and the meditation and all together and and learn about the the practices of you know why we do certain things and how different poses and the chakras and how you're aligned and um you know you talk about kundalini yoga as well and um yeah it just was really transformational from on a spiritual path

SPEAKER_02: 5:27

wasn't it though i came out of yoga teacher training and i was like everybody needs to be going through this like everybody needs to go through yoga teacher training whether you're going to be a teacher or not or just a human i feel like you really just need to go through the entire path

SPEAKER_01: 5:45

like the art of ayurveda and um, thinking about how different things you do or things you eat or even think about and how you warm your body up or cool your body down. It's just, there's such an art and you've been doing it for thousands of years. And I think in our American culture, sometimes we get away from that a little bit. So

SPEAKER_02: 6:08

that's very nice way to put that. Yes, indeed. I loved, loved, loved yoga teacher training. It was, it was basically the footstep the foundation of where I'm at like in this whole podcast in this life that I live today and yeah I've never been more grateful for a decision and program than that like it college is what's college take me back to yoga teacher training college is like the practical thing right right so with today I want to get us started and this is a the pocketbook of mindfulness this is my little book that I start my yoga soulful September sunrise classes with right now and my this book was gifted to be by my good friend Chrissy Marzano and when I was pregnant and I was like this is the most thoughtful gift you could give me or anyone like this is this is a forever gift you know like a forever present so all right so basically i'll just restart what i do is just like feel to where i feel i need to read and here it is so this one I'm going to botch the name, but it's Thich Nhat Hanh. That was the person that wrote this. And it says, when we are mindful, deeply in touch with the present moment, our understanding of what is going on deepens. And when we begin to be filled with acceptance, joy, peace, and love. And we begin to be filled with acceptance, joy, peace, and love. Perfect words.

SPEAKER_03: 8:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 8:09

so with that I've never started a podcast with this before but I love doing new things and bringing in some stuff and I love that you're on the same page as I in some of these ways so I feel like you can run with that so with that knowing that this podcast is a lot about being in the business of yourself and those inspiring moments that you were like, this is my pivot.

UNKNOWN: 8:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 8:44

And that was when you were like the most mindful in your life. Like what, what would you like to share? Oh,

SPEAKER_01: 8:50

Rachel, there's so many different, you know, different paths that one takes in their life. And my mom always said, you, you get to make the choices. So make sure they're good. Touche. Like, well, sometimes mom, like I think they're good, but you never know. So, So I have always been kind of the oddball and really just dancing to the beat of my own drum to the point where like it's grad school, I'm in London, my girlfriend comes to visit and we go out and I'm wearing like, I dress like a librarian and so librarians are cool, okay? So I'm wearing a curtain and like a wool dress and some pearls. And we end up at a private Young Money concert at the very wee hours of the morning. And here I am in my librarian outfit and it's a lingerie party for someone. And I was just like, I'm authentically myself.

SPEAKER_02: 10:02

That's right.

SPEAKER_01: 10:04

And

SPEAKER_02: 10:05

comfortable, probably. Ghostface

SPEAKER_01: 10:08

Killer, same thing that happened at the Ghostface Killer concert. So... unapologetically myself but so for the line in the sand that was really pivotal for me of when I was like you know what I I'm oh there were a couple so after I'm originally from Maine and went to grad school in England for curatorial practice because I've always been involved interested in museums and I wanted to work for the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston and so I did and it was just such an incredible experience but to also work there you it's you basically work for free for three years and then you have and then you get like an entry level job and then so living in the city of Boston and not having the means to actually be living in the city I had five other jobs while I was working at the museum and like loving it and I was teaching preschool and then at night I was like the shot girl going around to give people alcohol promos, wearing the most conservative outfit that I could find because that's just me. I'm like, hey, I'm bringing you free alcohol, right? So at that point in time, I was like, Lisa, you need to decide where you want your career to go. And so at that point, I was like, yep, I'm going to get a big girl job. And I started working for an architecture firm in HR, absolutely loved it. So I was also still working at the museum, but I was also working at the architecture firm. Absolutely loved that. Relocated to North Carolina and I got this incredible job with a real estate development firm and had the corner office, was making six figures and just was like, yeah, life was easy. I was able to travel around the world with my girlfriends and I was dating my husband at the time who did, he led a global travel company. So we were traveling all around and then I was like what do I want my kids to remember me by and and that was when I was like okay let's come back to ourselves and so when when COVID hit I was doing a lot of you know tuning in and praying of being like okay what's what's the next step and I you know I was visualizing and I was like you know what I think if I I could do anything in the world, I would go into clean water. I want to help people with clean water. Going back to yoga teacher training, when my husband and I were in Nepal, I did a yoga retreat in the Himalayas. And I was like, okay, this is a pivotal moment. I am feeling so free. I'm in you know this clean mountain air and yet these individuals don't have access to clean water and that is something that is so like every human deserves access to clean water so I'm visualizing this and it just so happened that I got a I was offered a position working in HR for clean water and have not looked back I feel so alive every day and it's just been such a journey I love the people I work with I went from working in for-profit to non-profit so just from a people standpoint people love to come to work for a mission that they really care about and you're all united in that we're all here for one one reason and that's to bring people clean water around the world

SPEAKER_02: 14:09

I love that so you do you take it over to that area do you take the water there or like is that all part of your logistics in your company or

SPEAKER_01: 14:18

yeah so we work with in country partners and we do have we do have water projects that are in Nepal which you know I think about back to my time when I was in the mountains and how just water transforms people's lives and we're all around the world with the company that I'm at right now and so we partner with individuals who actually live and work in the community and the reason that we do that is so that community members it's not like this other person coming in and being like this is how you should do things it's really grassroots from the ground up and they know like and trust their community members and we're the ones that can come in and help provide the infrastructure or the the technicians to help with drilling the well or putting up the solar array or doing sand filtration or, you know, there's a number of different types of water reclamation or water sanitation projects that we can do depending on if it's in the rainforest or in the desert. That's really

SPEAKER_02: 15:30

cool. Water totally does transform people's lives. And I want to talk about that on just like the definition, it's a polar soluble, right? And it is literally meant for transformation and transportation and it can be mixed to make things right so I think that it's just like the definition and then like pulling that in to what you feel and what you see and what you're actually providing that's magic

SPEAKER_01: 16:01

it's so inspiring to see these in many of the beneficiaries are women and children you know girls get to go to school girls get to think about being doctors and lawyers and And moms have an opportunity to be entrepreneurs. And like, what an inspiration. With the basic

SPEAKER_02: 16:23

need. Yeah. Water, food, shelter. I mean, it's always, always. Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

UNKNOWN: 16:29

Yeah. Like self-actualization.

SPEAKER_02: 16:30

It takes a while to get there, but yeah. That is such an amazing passion. And I love that that's where you ended up landing. And you kind of like manifested that for yourself and didn't even know it. Probably when you were doing your retreat, you were probably like, I don't even, this is what you all need. And, you know, I'll see you back in five years when I land the job and take, bring it to you.

SPEAKER_01: 16:56

It's just, you know, things happen in your life. And then it's like, after the fact you go, oh, that was the reason. I Oh, that's how I,

SPEAKER_02: 17:07

that's how I ended up there. That is amazing. So when you are going in from this being totally authentic person and probably then to the poorest person in Boston, because you are working for free and five jobs later and trying to figure out life, how wild that you've always been so driven to know your dream job and like then you get it and then you're like but there's more but there's more so like that's kind of knowing and that being in the business of yourself is like that self actualization like you mentioned it's just like you set out you were going to work at the museum in Boston you did and then you're like there's more

SPEAKER_01: 18:03

yeah

UNKNOWN: 18:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 18:04

I think that there's always, and sometimes it's a fault, right? If we get into our ways and then we just do the same thing. Like sometimes you'll talk to someone and they'll say, oh yeah, I've been at my job for 10 years and I really hate it. And I'm like, okay, well, that's a great, that's a great open door to think about a different possibility. So, and then there's more. So you can feel this fully in fully embrace and be grateful for what we have today. But I think the only thing that's permanent is change. And we as individuals are all on a journey to find what our passion is and what our joy and delight is. And it changes in different seasons. And for me, getting this job with this water nonprofit was significant in my life because I got the job in May of 21 and my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in September of 21 and she was given 12 months to live and one unique part about this job was it was fully remote so I was able to relocate and be with my mom when she was sick I gave birth to my daughter on a Monday my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer that Friday and And it was in September by Halloween, we were in Maine in an apartment near my parents so that we were able to spend that full year with her. And she could be Mimi for my little new baby. And how synchronous did that happen, that job transition? Not only was I working for something I was really passionate about, but it also afforded me time to be with my mom and my family when they needed me most. And through that experience, I always would joke like, oh, I'm doing HR by day and then cancer fighting by night and trying to find all of the... At the time, the pancreatic cancer survival rate was 11%, the five-year survival rate. So it's essentially a death sentence when you get the diagnosis. And you are not your prognosis. You are not your diagnosis. But when a doctor says that, it's really hard to hear. And so I spent that year looking for success stories and working with specialists and thinking about alternative medicine, right? We're talking about Ayurveda. And there's a reason why I learned about that before, because then I could bring that in to make meals for my mom that were going to be good for you know cancer fighting um enzymes so I um that was such a heartfelt journey in my life and that was another you know we talk about our turning points so when my mom passed a day before my daughter's birthday which ironically is three years to the day today oh my goodness yeah um I wow Lisa yeah I It's, you know, I get to chat with you on, on such a heartfelt day. So I'm grateful for that, Rachel. Um, but after blown away. Yeah. And so I'm, I'm talking with mom in the last week of her life and she had a, we made sure that she had a really good quality of life all the way up until the end. And so we're sitting in the garden and she goes, Lisa. You know, you're going to do great things after taking care of your mom like this. I'm like, what do you mean, mom? And she goes, yeah. She never answered me. And so over the last three years, I've been like, what does great things mean in Emily Hartung's life? That's your next book title, by the way.

SPEAKER_02: 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:29

There's your

SPEAKER_03: 22:31

ebook.

SPEAKER_01: 22:31

What that means. That'd be really helpful. But I then noticed part of the grief process was I'm someone that's a verbal processor. I need to be in community. And I found other grievers who would also, I mean, we're on the younger side. So many of my friends have not lost their parents yet, which I am grateful for. I don't want anyone to have to lose a parent or a loved one at any age, but especially before their time. It's just, it's really raw and it's really, really challenging. And sometimes it's hard to find support. So I started Giving Grief Grace in the fall of 2023, which was a year after my mom had lost, we'd lost my mom. I spent that full year from 22 to 23 raising money, raising awareness for Project Purple, which is a pancreatic cancer organization, raising money for the Coastal Bay Botanical Gardens, raising money for the local library and for children's literacy programs. Because my mom was a literacy teacher and then she also owned a boutique in our downtown. And so just really celebrating her life. And then I transitioned my grief into how can I help other people on their grief journeys feel like they have some autonomy over the trajectory of it. So then I started my podcast. giving grief grades on Mother's Day of 25 because this year yes so I my mom's journey or my mom's goal in life had always been to go to the Monet Gardens in Giverny in Paris or France and she in third grade she came and painted a water lily mural on my class wall we talked about impressionism with my class and we did a whole like she did a whole curriculum with my third grade class and so my third grade teacher my mom and i were like okay lisa graduates from high school we're going to monet's garden that didn't work out then we're like when lisa graduates from college we're gonna go and then it was like well when are we gonna go and so my mom owned her business for 37 years and we said on her retirement we're gonna go and then covet hit I never got to go because after COVID she got pancreatic cancer and was too ill to fly. So after she passed, it was my goal to bring her ashes and spread them in Monet's garden. And so last spring we, we did, my mother-in-law came with me and we had the most magical experience in the garden. My mom was with us a hundred percent of the way. And It was just such, again, another turning point in life, right? Of like, yes, this is what I was supposed to do. And so I did yoga teacher training so that I could lead retreats. Oh my goodness. And so then I was like, okay, retreats to Monet's garden. Got it.

SPEAKER_02: 25:50

There's so much more that I want to know about all of this. Like there was so much in that little bit of, Your mother was such an inspiration to you. Now, do you have siblings or is just,

SPEAKER_01: 26:05

yeah? I have a sister who's six and a half years older than me. And so she helped raise me. And she is also an artist. She's a graphic designer and a surface pattern designer. And she's also good with tech and websites and all of that. So, yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 26:25

What a beautiful, beautiful family. And what a relationship you also have with your mother-in-law that would be just so enchanting to take you to spread your mom's ashes. That is just so full circle. In that moment, like you said, yeah, my mom was with me. What was that? Can you describe that? Like, what does that feel like now?

SPEAKER_01: 26:54

for you? Rachel, it is, it's incredible. So we always talk about synchronicities or I don't know if you've ever read the book Signs by Laura Lynn Jackson, but that is my, one of my all-time favorites. After my mom passed, someone said, you need to read this book. And I just, it's, it's truly heartfelt. So if you've lost someone, please read, please read that book. It's a, it's, it's like a hug and it opens your mind up to something that you might find So my mother-in-law and I get along. I mean, we're like best friends. We love traveling together and doing things together. So grateful, right? Stepping into our true selves, like found my girl. So we go and I planned us a whole week in Paris and the surrounding area. So we had a blast together, but we're in the gardens and we are walking. and we were there in April. So the gardens open in April, usually like June, July and August are the busiest seasons. So, and we got there, I wanted to get there first thing in the morning so not a lot of people would be there and we could really have the time for ourselves. And so we went and we, so she, our tour guide, I hired an art historian tour guide Because as someone who practiced art and art history and worked at the museum, I was like, yeah, we're going to go all in here. Yeah. She met with us and we're in the gardens. And, you know, there are flowers everywhere. My dad's nickname for my mom was Honey Bee. And so you would think that there would be lots of bees around, but there wasn't. We found one. And it started buzzing around our heads when we were on Monet's Water Lily Bridge. I was like, hello, mom. Thanks for joining us, honeybee. And so then we're like walking around the garden some more. And it's a little bit busier at this point. And I look over and there is a woman. My mom used to garden. She loved gardens. And that's why she loved Monet and painting. There was a woman wearing my mom's like canvas garden hat. I've never seen anyone else wear it. So I was like, that's mom. Like, that's my mom. And then as soon as I saw the hat, another woman was like, Hey, Emily, where are you? And that was my mom's name. And I was like, what? I was like, hello, mama. Oh,

SPEAKER_03: 29:40

it's so

SPEAKER_01: 29:41

good. So I, I, you know, I should have like chased the woman down, but you know, you always wonder what,

SPEAKER_00: 29:50

how did

SPEAKER_01: 29:50

that happen? And so I was like, yeah, I'm gonna take that thank you mom like thank you for for showing up and in such a beautiful way and what's wild is I was very sick that morning just because you know this was a dream that my mom and I had been talking about for 30 years

SPEAKER_00: 30:13

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 30:14

and I'm now doing it without her and I felt so conflicted of like this is the one time we're gonna do it and it has to we have to make it magnificent. I was so sick. And then we got back from the trip and I found out I was pregnant with my second child.

SPEAKER_02: 30:29

I'm like, there we go. Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. That is... wow synchronicities are on point your mom loves you so much it is whoa wow so she you were you had your daughter on a monday that friday she was diagnosed yeah three years today she passed today And you spread her ashes on what day? What day was that?

SPEAKER_01: 31:15

I want to say it was April 14th, but it might've been, it was between the 14th and the 20th. I don't know the exact day. Okay. And

SPEAKER_02: 31:26

you found out you were pregnant when you got back. I mean, and you've started all of these nonprofits and coming in and raising money for pancreatic awareness and like, yeah, of course you're going to do, great things Lisa if she casts that spell on you and there you are just totally fulfilling all of that what a it's such a gift like that you're actually giving into society like the water the movements your podcast that is so healing in and of itself just for humanity like you're just like a humanitarian but I know you do more I know you do more than that I know you

SPEAKER_01: 32:20

run right yeah I'm training training for the New York City Marathon um eight months postpartum and um raising money for Project Purple again through that so um yeah that's fun I run marathons I fun fact I was I had already finished when the Boston Marathon on bomb went off but that was my first Boston and I've run it three or four times since really yeah and I was living in Boston at the time and so it was like such a heart heartfelt time

SPEAKER_02: 32:59

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 33:00

yeah so

SPEAKER_02: 33:02

absolutely wow

SPEAKER_01: 33:04

marathoning is a great way to help process grief help connect with nature if I ever need to talk to my mom and feel like I'm with her going out on the trails and just chatting it away and I hear you know I used to when marathon training I used to call her and she would do her crafts and chit chat with me while I was running because you know as a mom you're always worried about your child right so you know I'm out on the trails for three hours by myself and so she'd be like just give me a call about halfway through and we'll chat

SPEAKER_02: 33:42

are you out of

SPEAKER_01: 33:42

breath and

SPEAKER_02: 33:43

when you're in this conversation because I would be I'd be like you hear me breathing the whole time my mom would be like just drop a pin

SPEAKER_03: 33:55

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 33:57

but dad has inherited that um whether he likes it or not so um keeping me company so

SPEAKER_02: 34:06

before um before all of this as well kind of want to get back into the current career flip in your line in the sand like I don't feel like that was an easy decision for you to leave this like gorgeous six-figure job that you you know are loving life is good and you see this teeter-totter of a passion project basically come up in your way and you're no one's sick yet are you pregnant yet no

SPEAKER_01: 34:41

no

SPEAKER_02: 34:43

So your life is just gleam and glam and wonderful. And you've been doing all the right things up until this point. How did you make this decision when it would have been so easy to not? Because you are at this point, what, double income, no kids. And you're like, yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 35:05

living and traveling the

SPEAKER_03: 35:06

world,

SPEAKER_01: 35:07

like living life. And I distinctly remember a walk outside I'm looking up at the trees and being like it doesn't always have to be like this and I loved my job but I wasn't passionate about the material right like I went to school for museums art and architecture and this was a real estate job and we were redeveloping multi-family houses apartments and loved the team and loved what we did like providing housing to people is so important because everyone needs a roof over their head but I was like what is what does Lisa want right and you think back to your seven-year-old self who's just vibrant and really thriving in life and what does she want right and so I did a lot of soul searching trying to figure out and I think many of us do right we get we get into a pattern and then we say hmm okay it doesn't always have to be like this right and and that's where you have to take action what is the next small step so then I started thinking okay well what would I be interested in and I I'd already know I my whole life I mean I did a conservation poster in third grade about conserving water in our neighborhood or in our I like community. So water had always been, you know, in the path for me. And so I'm out on this walk one day and I used to go in my corporate job. There was a little walking trail that I would go on after every run or every, during every lunchtime. And I would just think, okay, so what's next? You know, what are we going to do? And then I don't even think I, I wasn't job searching, but it came up on LinkedIn. And that opportunity was like, okay, okay, this is happening. And I'd also taken Kathy Heller's Don't Keep Your Day Job. It was just like an entrepreneur think tank business program that I had taken during COVID during 2020, just because I was like, what else is there? I'm interested. And then in January of 21, I saw this job posting was like, oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Okay, let's do it. And, you know, hundreds or over thousands of people applied and I was a lucky one. Yeah. So I think the line in this sand was just coming to the realization that it didn't always have to be like this and I needed to take action somehow and I started taking the action right I took the business class because I've my mom's an entrepreneur my sister's an entrepreneur my grandma my great grandma all entrepreneurs like wow strong women lineage yes like wow being able to survive through the Great Depression right and anytime there was an actual economic downturn, my family was able to provide because they were entrepreneurs. So learning from them, right? I was like, okay, what is next? But it's taking that next small step that was helpful for me of saying, okay, I did the business class. What's next? I then got really clear. If I could do anything, it would be water. And then the job came available. That

SPEAKER_02: 39:12

is amazing it's actually just like that though on everything career family relationship where you want to live that clarity has to arrive so you don't miss your sign when it's right in front of you

SPEAKER_03: 39:33

and

SPEAKER_02: 39:34

it always lands like right in front of you it doesn't matter there's no science there's no like methodology to or maybe it's a methodology but there's no like it's not a math problem it's not anything that's like so matter of fact except it's so matter of fact you know you have to be so clear in what you want you have to be clear in what you want exactly and it's not what I don't want it's what you want right so I know this 100% to be true in my own life and in a relationship forum where I wrote down like a list of a hundred. So my friend, I've told this story in a previous podcast because it's significant in my life and it's great. So anyway, it landed me where I'm at. So I'll tell it to you because you may not have heard it. Anyway, my friend was like, you need to write down a list of a hundred attributes you want to find in your next man and all this thing. Cause like, you know, you got a bad picker and you got to go and figure out like how you gotta tweak yourself to get this like man that you want and you deserve and all those things and I'm like you're exactly right so I write down a list of a hundred and then I'm realizing like I'm attracting what I'm writing but I'm writing like don't want blah blah blah I'm not clear so there's it's really just like a list of 60 or maybe a list of 70 and I had to get it to like this perfect And this is how it worked for me. I just had to get it to this perfect, like what I want. And then the stars aligned, Josh and I met and boom, we're engaged. We're getting married in June. I don't, I mean like, that's just like how it came. And he is, he, he made a hundred on his first test. Like he didn't even know he was taking one. You were like, okay. I'm not kidding. you I have the checkbox like the list of a hundred so yeah you gotta get clear you gotta have that clarity and like what is it that you want you knew it was water you're conservationist yeah I almost said conservatist but that's not where I was going with that conservationist so of course that's gonna happen and that's what the equation is called it's called the of course it's going to happen method.

SPEAKER_03: 42:15

There we go.

SPEAKER_01: 42:16

Yeah. Funny story, Rachel, about the, a little aside about finding your spouse. So I moved to North Carolina with an, a previous boyfriend because we'd grown up together and I thought, oh yeah, we're going to get married. And I was very career driven and he got into the armed forces and I was like, look, I'm, you know, you're a great person. I just, it's, there's no future here. So my mom goes, all you have to do is just think about your perfect person and then you just type it into those online dating apps, Lisa, and it will spit out a cookie cutter of what you're looking for. And I was like, I don't know if that works, mom. Like, I've never done it. And she's like, just try it. Because I didn't know anyone in North Carolina. Like, his friends, yes, but I worked all the time. Right? Rachel, I am, kid you not, I typed it all in. I put it into the ether or the universe. And my husband was the first guy I met. No way.

SPEAKER_02: 43:23

I love that. Oh my gosh. So what do you mean you typed it into the ether? What was it a specific dating app? Was it like, you just was like, here's this thing, Google. And then all of a sudden this guy shows up on your doorstep. What is this? It's like,

SPEAKER_01: 43:39

it was crazy. I met him on And the reason I chose Bumble was because the girl gets to say hello first. Yeah. Get all these weirdos that are like, hey, want to check me out? Josh and I are Bumbles. Yeah. So are Prince and I. Yeah. And then I met him. I was Coffee Meets Bagel. I also saw him on that. So when I first met him, I was like, oh, yeah, he's like 10 out of 10. And my colleague was like, Lisa, you want Prada. Okay. You're going shopping. Okay. You're going for Prada. And I was like, I'm pretty sure I already got that and a bag of chips. So I was dating, you know, some other guys that month. And then I was like, no, I already had Prada. Like, you got to get

SPEAKER_02: 44:28

clear. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I love it. Gosh, this conversation is so good. This is great. So that was an awakening for you and I really appreciate that you were like yeah I don't care about the money situation I'm gonna go do exactly what Lisa wants to do and you gave this like seven year old girl the best gift possible and then it just like unfolded in more and more and more gifts from there an opportunity to be with your mom in such a time I mean that is the most beautiful, synchronistic story I've ever probably ever heard. Life does happen like that. People are like, life doesn't happen like that. That's not real. No, it really does. It happens exactly like that. When I moved back here, my son was six months old. I moved from Louisville out of the city back to be near my family. And I I knew my grandparents were old and everything, but... They got to meet my son and we actually got to have a relationship, him with both of my grandmothers. And the week of November 9th, it was like they both died the same week because my grandma died on November 9th. And then the next day, my other grandma had a stroke and never really fully recovered from and died six months later. So it's like... the synchronicity of life yes it does happen like that you have to like tap into who you are and hear it for everything it's telling you how do you do that with your life how do you get to that present moment I want to know I want to know more

SPEAKER_01: 46:37

Rachel I think what you were saying of like leaving the the comfort of the six-figure job and just going with into and knowing what fills your cup up right money is only one element and one aspect of life and you either have it or you don't and if you have it then you're doing good and you know more money doesn't make you happier and so what's really important when making life decisions is saying what's going to make me happy what's going to fill my cup up and and how is that how how How is that going to help me move forward? And so I really, you know, daily meditation is so important to just be grounded. And I have to say, with two kids now, my meditations look a little different than they used to. But just being able to fully just think about, again, getting clear of like, what do I need? What's my higher purpose? Why are we here? How can we, I always say, spread kindness like confetti, right? We want to spread love and kindness in the world. The world needs more of that. And so how do we help others on that journey? And we're all a gift to one another and we all have our talents and our shining stars. And so how do you bring that out in other people? But you have to fill your cup up first before you can help others. And so that's something that I am always cognizant of. So, you know, we're talking about earlier this week, you're like, yeah, I went for a massage. I felt great. Yeah, we kind of give that like work on ourselves, right? You talk about that, the fits in project, like we're our own projects. We have to make sure that we're investing in ourselves. And how can you make yourself feel special? How can you talk to yourself like you would a best friend? Like she is with you through it all. Thick, thin, old, young, you know,

SPEAKER_02: 48:54

like. That's the truth. Good, bad, and ugly lady. Sticking with me for forever.

SPEAKER_01: 49:00

During yoga teacher training, we actually wrote a letter to our future selves. We did too. And then they sent it to us six months later or whatever. And I kept that letter because I was like, six months ago, Lisa? Yeah. so wise same and I take it out whenever I'm feeling lost or you know like I need I don't know I need direction and I think about that right we have to go back and get clear on there's a really good podcast and it's all about numbering your days so cultivate what matters it's a it's a company that started in Chapel Hill but I Laura Casey used to own it and then she ended up selling it after her father passed away. But it's all about numbering your days. And so if you are 80, looking back on your life, what would you want your legacy to be? And who, what relationships would you want to have grown? And which ones would you want to say, okay, that's it. And I think about that in work as well like five years from now no one's going to care that you missed the T in that sentence or you were like a rock star on that project like okay yeah but in real life like at the end of life you're not going to remember the projects or the paychecks you're going to remember the people the relationships the experiences that you had and the memories that you made oh wow

SPEAKER_02: 50:48

That's a wrap. That was seriously, that's 100% everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 50:56

You make absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 50:57

I read a, I was reading in one of my books that I wish I could remember titles like to a T and I just can't, but it's like, it's something like, Oh yeah. heart warm path anyway I'll put it in the show notes right but he leads meditations within this book and he said exactly what you said and then his meditation was may I be full of love and peace. May I be well. May I be happy. And then once you can embody that for yourself, think of your close loved ones. Like for me, like may Josh be, you know, or my son and my parents. And then once we're like sold and set in that, and like you can embody that, then external and keep externally. And that's basically how like the love Love grows. But as you said, it starts with self. It has to. Yeah. You have to fill yourself,

SPEAKER_01: 52:13

your cup up.

SPEAKER_02: 52:14

Yeah. I love, love, love that. And with my letter, it told me, it was me, told future me to always meditate. Yeah. Always meditate. I think I said, meditation is your friend. You like it. Don't give it up. keep doing it every day. You need it. It's like medicine. Yeah. Goodness. Oh, wow. What do you know what you're said? What was your one thing that you should keep? If you did that? I don't know if you

SPEAKER_01: 52:52

did that. So, um, it's funny yoga teacher training. I I've run marathon. I've run many marathons. I run one per year and I have been since 2011 and I doing Doing that is no big deal for me. Teaching a yoga class is the most stressful thing I have ever done in my life. Like queuing, adjusting, picking out the playlist, making sure that I'm not keeping people in a position for too long. I just, I struggled. And before that retreat, it was like the end of our yoga teacher training retreat where we would all go and we teach an hour long class to one another. I was on the floor, curled up on the floor of our house to my husband, or at that point in time, I think we were about to get married. married and I was like I I am paralyzed in fear I I'm and I was like I I know I can do it but I just I I am not one of those people that likes to half-ass it like if I'm gonna do it I might as well do it well and I didn't feel like I could do it well and I didn't have the confidence and that's not a normal Lisa thought like I usually like yeah you got this girl and So going into that retreat, I was really struggling. And so I wrote to myself and I said, you have this. All you have to do is persevere. You know what you know and it feels so good after you stretch yourself. Yes. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. That's any, any part of life. Yes. Wise wisdoms. Thank you. Thank you, Lisa from 2018. Anytime in life, right? If life was the same every day, it would be super boring. You have to do the stretch work to then feel like you're elevating yourself and also feel like, yeah, I did this. Like give yourself a pat on the back for going outside your comfort zone. And you did it. Did it. I'm

SPEAKER_02: 55:04

impressed with the story on another level of why we're connected. Here's this rock. Okay. Might not look like much, but it is everything to me. This came out of my yoga teacher training. And I too was like so nervous to get it wrong and like miss a step. And I'm again, like almost a perfectionist without a give a shit, but a perfectionist with a lot of shits to give. So, like, there's a lot of misbalance, miscommunication, firewalls go off. But I just, like, I'm really scared. And my voice shakes and I cry. Like, that's just, like, my nervous system just cannot handle it if I'm in a stretch situation. So, my first time teaching in front of everybody as well, I was just like... And, you know, just started crying. And then they were like, just stop. Take a big breath. And I had to stand with my hands and like my shoulders back. And I had to stand there with full on posture. And I just like taught in the most raw cry ever, whatever, for like five minutes. And then I finally got through it. And that was like my like hump. And then at the end, this rock they gave me because they heard my peacock story and they were like you are a peacock all you have to do is just like pluck your feathers and you've got this like may you always shine all your colors and I'm like wow and that means the most to me and this isn't even a colorful rock but this is the most colorful rock I've got like it is mine so but I love that you and I had some similar experience in that maybe that hits for everyone and like

SPEAKER_01: 57:00

Yeah. There's some, some hard journey that you did. And you know, it's funny, right? We paid to do this, right? We're like, why are we putting ourselves through this? But, but what a gift though, right? Like for sure. Come out on the other side as a better person. So just, just do it. 100%. You know, get uncomfortable. You, you grow, you change, you learn new things.

UNKNOWN: 57:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 57:31

So what do you have going on for the listeners if you have any invitations out right now?

SPEAKER_01: 57:40

Yeah. Thank you for asking. So Giving Grief Grace, we release one podcast episode every Sunday at 7 a.m. Eastern time. And the podcast is all about the death and dying realm, but also finding positivity out of a really challenging time. And I interview people who have experienced grief and people who work, they call them death workers, but people who work in that space, whether it be a posthumous or a funeral director and all that's in between. So check me out on Giving Grief Grace podcast. You can find it wherever or on YouTube. And then on 9-27, September 27th on Saturday from two to four Eastern time, I am doing a power of positivity workshop for anyone who is grieving because grief is my thing um you can come if you're not grieving as well and we'll find um but really it's about how to get through the day when you feel riddled with grief because sometimes it's really hard to even get out of bed and so we'll be doing a workshop and I'm doing this um for charity to support um Pancreatic cancer research through project purple in support of my marathon. So I will give you a link to put in your show notes, uh, where people can find me, but you can also find me on, on Instagram at giving grief grace.

SPEAKER_02: 59:16

Wow. That is awesome. Thank you so much, Lisa. You're one of the most beautiful people I've ever met. I love your story. It's your life is just phenomenal and I'm so happy for you and how it unfolds. Like, this is such a... It's beautiful. So thank you so much for sharing that with us today. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00: 59:40

Rachel, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02: 59:44

You're welcome. You're welcome. And I'm excited for my listeners to hear this. And yeah, I would love for you to go check out Lisa. So I'll put everything that you just had said with your Project Purple, all of that in our show notes. So be on the lookout. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Have a great week ahead.